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2radical
Post subject: BS  PostPosted: Jul 30, 2006 - 12:14 PM




Joined: Dec 07, 2005
Posts: 310
Location: Port Angeles, Wa. USA
Unbelievable--I hate to say this but what a shoddy, unstable, distribution this has turned out to be. I'm disappointed. I haven't done a GD thing to destabilize this Easter dist. except add **censored** to /etc/apt/sources.list, yet, when I try to print a document today, nothing happens--not even a freaking print error message. I have tried very, very hard to get this dist. to work, but I run into problems at every turn with what should be simple basic functions. I have spent incredible amounts of time trying to get this thing to simply work than I have using it. & that is pathetic!!

What a major hassle. It would be SO nice to be able to go for more than a week or 2 at a time without some sort of problem relating to what one would reasonably expect of an O.S. I have spent hours & hours trying to configure installation, apps,etc. If it's not one thing it's another--the problems never seem to end. I thought by not du-ing I could avoid printing problems, but not so. A lot of people here know what problems users have run up against simply trying to get a working system & it's a lot of BS. I'm certainly no Linux expert, but if Kanotix ever wants to find it's way onto a mainstream desktop. a lotta more work needs to be done, otherwise it's just clunky. If this pisses you off, so be it--just toss it off to my lack of expertise so you can feel superior.

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devil
Post subject: BS  PostPosted: Jul 30, 2006 - 12:30 PM
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2radical,
try to be a bit objective please, even though you might be angry.
if kdeprintig/cups is b0rked, there is not much we can do about it.
you can try dist-upgrade tomorrow (check news first) to get kde 3.5.4 and new cups and see, if the issue is fixed.
95% of the people got their printers working, there is very helpfull threads here.
i fully agree, that this is a basic issue and should not happen in the first place, not even in unstable, but like i said, little we can do about it, other then advice users how to work around it for now, and thats what we do here.

greetz
devil

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bluewater
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 30, 2006 - 12:33 PM




Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 55
Location: Australia
Its not just contained to Kanotix.. its all Linux CUPS related , and installing an app , buggers things up.. although i am a bit surprised that it was app *******, usually its a "platsercast app that lives in a garden, however its has also hit KDE,,


On the other hand.. you have had your share of Hghs and Lows,, and often found solutions that have have helped other Debian users, not just Kanotix.. Thankyou,, your contribution will be missed

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stryder
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 30, 2006 - 01:14 PM




Joined: Jun 26, 2005
Posts: 297

2radical, you need to know what you want, and the price to pay. You want everything to work - get 2005-4. I don't know if CUPS is OK there - perhaps someone here can tell you that. If not, get debian stable. That should be OK. Work to get everything to work well. Configure everything to your liking. Be happy.

If you get upgradeitis after that, make a copy of that perfect system on another partition. Use H2's script. And go on from there. But keep your perfect, stable system.

Honestly I have been expecting this - you have been reinstalling far to often. But I hope that after you have cooled down you will be more positive.

I echo bluewater's sentiments - you have been a contributing member of this community and I hope you will stay the same.
 
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2radical
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 30, 2006 - 01:38 PM




Joined: Dec 07, 2005
Posts: 310
Location: Port Angeles, Wa. USA
Quote:
try to be a bit objective please, even though you might be angry.
if kdeprintig/cups is b0rked, there is not much we can do about it.
you can try dist-upgrade tomorrow (check news first) to get kde 3.5.4 and new cups and see, if the issue is fixed.


I understand that it is not Kanotix's fault that cups is "borked", BUT I haven't done any DU-ing, so I shouldn't be affected, right? Yet suddenly I can't print.! & I haven't changed a friggin thing! I don't plan to do any dist-upgrade, because it has caused nothing but problems in the past. I used to LOVE to do it. This forum is flooded with messages about dist-upgrade problems, you must admit, on almost a daily basis. I don't advise doing so, because of that. KDE (3.5.3) is fine the way it is--99% + - of people who D/L upgrades won't notice any difference, anyway I'll bet, they're just addicted to having the latest & greatest, whether it borks their system or not. IMHO. I'm tired of constant configuring just to make things work. I'm not becoming a Debian testing advocate, but just want a system that is reasonably functionable, & don't think that's an unreasonable expectation of Kanotix, if you know what I mean.

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bluewater
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 30, 2006 - 02:23 PM




Joined: Apr 04, 2006
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2radical it did not need a d-u to bork CUPS,, i have a P4 ,, its a non D-U box.. except.. and note "except".. i installed a couple of extra apps..NORMALY this would hae been par for the course.. however.. it stuffed me up.. it got fixed .. iits was one of your posts that set me on the trail...

SO... gets the system up and running and dont blame kanotix,, Kanotix is 99% Debian Sid when Hard disk installed, with a few steroids via distro specific scripts

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jackiebrown
Post subject: Re: BS  PostPosted: Jul 30, 2006 - 02:33 PM




Joined: May 13, 2005
Posts: 558
Location: Texas
devil wrote:
2radical,
f kdeprintig/cups is b0rked, there is not much we can do about it.
you can try dist-upgrade tomorrow (check news first) to get kde 3.5.4 and new cups and see, if the issue is fixed.
95% of the people got their printers working, there is very helpfull threads here.
i fully agree, that this is a basic issue and should not happen in the first place, not even in unstable, but like i said, little we can do about it, other then advice users how to work around it for now, and thats what we do here.
greetz
devil


yep, I run straight Debian unstable instead of kanotix and had the exact same issue.

It was an easy fix, but I never would have found it without reading the threads on this forum.

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kelmo
Post subject: Re: BS  PostPosted: Jul 30, 2006 - 03:21 PM
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2radical wrote:
Unbelievable--I hate to say this but what a shoddy, unstable, distribution this has turned out to be. I'm disappointed. I haven't done a GD thing to destabilize this Easter dist. except add **censored** to /etc/apt/sources.list, yet, when I try to print a document today, nothing happens--not even a freaking print error message. I have tried very, very hard to get this dist. to work, but I run into problems at every turn with what should be simple basic functions. I have spent incredible amounts of time trying to get this thing to simply work than I have using it. & that is pathetic!!


2005-04 was the last STABLE release for a reason, and your words are pathetic, not the effort that went into bringing that to you.

This post is so absolutely disappointing.

Kel.
 
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Richard
Post subject: RE: Re: BS  PostPosted: Jul 30, 2006 - 06:41 PM




Joined: Nov 07, 2005
Posts: 58
Location: Venezuela
"...to make things work. I'm not becoming a Debian testing advocate, but just want a system that is reasonably functionable, & don't think that's an unreasonable expectation of K...."

I understand and sympathize with your frustration. It's really normal. After much pain, I have come to the conclusion that dist-upgrade is for non-critical boxes. I guess that is why Debian has "stable", "testing" and "unstable". There is a bit too much unstable lately. I still like unstable but am taking steps to make it more usable, for me.

Mainly, I now read carefully the messages from aptitude. It explained to me how to be able to install the latest and greatest Krusader 1.70.1, that isn't in the repository yet.

I see that Cups is now at 1.22, which should be even more stable than 1.21. The old 1.11 got broken with all the changes to compilers and what-not. A real SNAFU. But so far, I haven't changed it as long as the old one works for me. Smilie

Reinstalled K-2006-easter-rc4 last night, after discovering that QtPartEd *doesn't* run as reliably from hard disk as from the LiveCD. It doesn't! Backup before testing.

*My experience: Only use QtPartEd from the LiveCD.*
I removed it from my HD install, just in case I forget.

My data has been in separate partitions for several years, but I kept trying to use Upgrade. I do not intend to ever Update again.
Install reformats / and all the rest stays the same, thanks to the neat Installer.

So after horking my system and blowing away /home and /usr/local, I decided just to reinstall and reconfig the whole mess to the following percents of the linux portion of disk:
/ =20%; /home =15%; /opt =5%; /usr/local =40%; /test =20% and 512MB Swap;
and I still have 3GB for WinXP and 7GB for shared data on FAT32.

Then installed current kernel and apps not included on the CD.
And always configure the printer with Firefox:
http://localhost:631/

So, 2radical in Washington state, take a break if you can. Use Windows if necessary to get your work done. Partake of whatever you need to relax: liquid, mental, etc. Take nap. Play with the dog or cat. It is still better than having to run Windows all the time. Smilie

saludos,
Richard.

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piper
Post subject: RE: Re: BS  PostPosted: Jul 30, 2006 - 07:11 PM
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2radical

So sorry to hear that you are pissed off, I've had internet problems so I haven't been around, but I do hope you do a shot & a beer, exhale, and don't give up. Sid can be frustrating, especially if you have things to lose. Why not install sarge (stable) as your production (sid is not a smart move for production) distro and dual boot with kanotix to mess around with, that way you have the best of both worlds. I think more people should complain to the manufacture of the printers to better support linux than to complain about the disto itself. I also hope you do stick around.

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h2
Post subject: RE: Re: BS  PostPosted: Jul 30, 2006 - 07:17 PM




Joined: Mar 12, 2005
Posts: 590

Yes, keep in mind that if you install debian etch [testing] now, it will become debian stable around december, which will give you a system with specs very much like what easter 2006 has.

Think of that, if everything in etch works on your box, with various fixes, once it switches to stable, you will have calm sailing for years.

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mdmarmer
Post subject: Print drivers  PostPosted: Jul 30, 2006 - 07:54 PM




Joined: Mar 22, 2006
Posts: 39
Location: dayton, oh usa
You may want to try the turboprint drivers -- they work better for some (mainly epson) printers even cups is working well

Mike

http://www.turboprint.de/
 
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eco2geek
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 30, 2006 - 08:46 PM




Joined: May 02, 2004
Posts: 336
Location: Portland, OR, USA
My suggestion: Find a friend who knows Debian and have them come over and help you.

(Hell, invite me up there. Port Angeles is a nice place to visit, and close to Canada, too. My fees are very reasonable -- food. Winken )

Seriously. I know you wrote your post out of frustration and anger. (At least you're not talking politics...........................) But if a guy like me can successfully run Kanotix, and have a lot of fun doing it, so can you.

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Swynndla
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: BS  PostPosted: Jul 30, 2006 - 10:23 PM




Joined: Dec 05, 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
2radical, I've heard this before several times ... people install the Kanotix Stable release and like it, then when a Preview release comes out they install that, forgetting that it's not a stable release. Often "rc" releases are so good that people get lured into a false sense of security about it's stability.

People wonder why the kanotix developers take so long to come out with another Stable release (as kanotix-2005-04 was more than a year ago) ... but it's this sort of unstability in debian unstable that we are seeing now that limits the next stable release of kanotix. Even when we can't detect much going on in debian testing, the kanotix developers will still often wait until they can bring a rock solid kanotix stable release.

The same thing goes for dist-upgrading ... some people dist-upgrade all the time, not because they like testing unstable debian packages, but because they feel that they might be missing out on something, and they are surprised when things break, not realizing that dist-upgrading on debian unstable is often "unstable". The first 20 dist-upgrades might turn out fine for them, but then they are surprised when the next one breaks their system really badly.

I know that you've learned not to dist-upgrade for the same of it and that's good.

My point is that there's two types of kanotix uses, "testers" and "users". Testers don't mind testing the lastest dist-upgrade stuff and solving problems when they happen. They love that sort of thing and often hang out in the #kanotix irc channel ... it's their hobby. Users are poeple that just want to run a linux distro to do their stuff.

In my opinion, Users should be really careful about ever dist-upgrading on kanotix. Better for them to "install-update" when each kanotix stable release comes out.

But even Testers are careful. Some have one box as their main pc, and other box they the dist-upgrade all the time. Others always make sure they have a 100% working pc that's fully backed up before they dist-upgrade, and so they can always roll back their system to what they had if they get into trouble. But you can't start doing that (eg via rdiff-backup) until you've got a system that's working 100%

Testing is a lot of work, and if you don't like it then you shouldn't do it. Those that do like it are helpful to the kanotix developers via their feedback etc.

The advantage of being a tester is that you end up learning a lot about linux.

I put kanotix on my mother's pc about 6 months ago, and apt-got apps "unamed due to legal reasons blah blah" etc etc, and once I was happy with it, I haven't and will not dist-upgrade or even upgrade it. I will wait until the next kanotix stable release comes out, take a backup, and do an install-upgrade.

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2radical
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jul 30, 2006 - 10:29 PM




Joined: Dec 07, 2005
Posts: 310
Location: Port Angeles, Wa. USA
OK--I have calmed down a little now & I apologize if I've offended anyone. I was up WAY too late last night after being with a family member who's come down with lymphoma & I wasn't thinking very clearly. It's kinda out of character for me to overreact so strongly, especially on a public forum. My frustration reached a point where it boiled over I guess. It just blew me away not being able to print AGAIN when I was able to do so earlier in the day. I haven't dist-upgraded or installed anything print related. It seems to have happened of it's own accord. I have saved the fixes for this to hard copy to refer to. I still maintain that this is a very tiresome & irritating situation. The printing problems are not Kanotix's I realize, as it has been spread over various distributions. I will have to give more reasoned thought before I decide what to do. Thank you for your replies.

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