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h2
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 22.07.2006, 20:42 Uhr



Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005

on older pcs, the cpu heatsink tends to collect a mat of felt like dust between the heat sink blades, and on the fan blades themselves.

Compressed air usually will not clean this out, you need to open the case, unscrew the cpu fan unit, then clean out all the accumulated dust and fiber that can dramatically raise cpu temps because the heatsink does not get any airflow over it.

You don't need to do this that often, maybe once a year or so, depending on how dusty the room is.

Better cases, like antec, have a removable dust screen behind the front panel that catches more dust.

Antec sonata II cases come with a cpu fan duct to bring in cool air from the outside.

You can see if cpu temp is an issue by installing lm-sensors together with ksensors, which is a gui front end. Once lm-sensors is setup, it will show you all relevant cpu/mobo data.

Firefox freezing may be due to an extension conflict or corruption. Many people mix extensions that are not compatible and are then surprised and annoyed to find firefox destabilizing. Keep your extensions clean, don't mix functionaliities unless you're sure you know what the results will be.

But my first guess on why firefox is locking up would be that you installed that horrible gtk2-engines-gtk-qt, which tends to massively destabilize firefox from my experience. I would never use that library again for any reason. And yes, it totally froze kde in some cases. That issue may or may not have been fixed, I don't care, I'll never use that, or anything like that, again, for any reason.
 
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op4latino
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 23.07.2006, 05:07 Uhr



Anmeldung: 18. Jul 2005
Beiträge: 293
Wohnort: EST US
The keyboard combo you were talking about earlier, is it supposed to work in windows as well? My XP is freezing up at shutdown every now and then.
 
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schnorrer
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 23.07.2006, 12:54 Uhr



Anmeldung: 09. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 1720

There is an other reson failing shutdown or unconditional freeze on older mobo's.

1. bad programmed APM/ACPI. New BIOS will help.
2. 1 Jumper on the MoBo for the KBD to Powerup the pc. found near the KBD-Connector.
Pos. 1-2 means yes allow the KBD to powerup, Pos. 2-3 No.
someteimes there is a 2nd Jumper for the KBD-Powering. Jumper set: KBD and mouse got powered with 5V, even if the PC is off.

In the Case where only the 3-pin jumper is avail. set it to that pos. where powerup is allowed.
in the case with both Jumpers, also make shure the 2-pin jumper is set to power the KBD even PC is off.

@op4latino:Freezing XP too, cause can be: Bad plugged interface card in a pci-slot, does not fit exactly, bad connected RAM-Modules. By default overclocked Ram-Interface (Ram timing to fast) unstable PSU on 5V.

Wireing and Cables will cover the Fan, cause overheat on cpu. sol. Make shure no Cabel disturbs the airflow.
And last but not seldom, a damaged Capacitor near the RAM. MoBo is defekt.
 
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2radical
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 23.07.2006, 17:31 Uhr



Anmeldung: 07. Dez 2005
Beiträge: 369
Wohnort: Port Angeles, Wa. USA
I bought this unit in 2004--is that considered old? Todays the day everything gets cleaned & checked. My lockups/freezes were not constant but irregularily occuring

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ockham23
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 23.07.2006, 22:39 Uhr



Anmeldung: 25. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 2133

@2radical: 2004 can't be considered too old, unless you ask a salesperson from Dell or HP. Winken

Two suggestions: Boot off the Kanotix cd and run memtest86 from grub extra menu to check memory modules; remove pc case cover for a couple of days to improve cooling.

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2radical
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 23.07.2006, 23:07 Uhr



Anmeldung: 07. Dez 2005
Beiträge: 369
Wohnort: Port Angeles, Wa. USA
Zitat:
2004 can't be considered too old, unless you ask a salesperson from Dell or HP.

Lachen Yeah I'm sure you're right!! I just got through cleaning the inside of my box. The power supply was pretty dusty, but other than that, things weren't too bad. I have a fan on the side cover so it gets pretty good heat dissapation. I will do the memtest though so thanks...

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2radical
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 24.07.2006, 01:36 Uhr



Anmeldung: 07. Dez 2005
Beiträge: 369
Wohnort: Port Angeles, Wa. USA
Well I ran memtest86+ for around 45 min making one pass with no errors, so I guess things are OK. Maybe it was just a fluke as I haven't had any more freezes since I reported it. At least things are nice & dust-free inside now.

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Swynndla
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 24.07.2006, 04:01 Uhr



Anmeldung: 05. Dez 2005
Beiträge: 414
Wohnort: Auckland, New Zealand
My main pc started freezing baddly a couple of months ago ... it started happening all of a sudden, on every boot, and happened even when I booting via live cd, so I knew it was hardware ... I installed ksensors (like h2 said) and saw that my cpu was runing at a high temp ... I cleaned out the dust in the heatsync (there was quite a bit) and also re-gelled the cpu to the heat sync, and afterwards ksensors showed the cpu running 10 degrees cooler on average.

After that, my pc freezes only once every day or two - but only when the pc is cold! ... ie a few minutes or so after I've after I've booted up in the morning. I don't use gtk2-engines-gtk-qt. It must be some other hardware problem like schnorrer says ... but the funny thing is, I didn't have a problem until a few months ago.

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op4latino
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 24.07.2006, 04:30 Uhr



Anmeldung: 18. Jul 2005
Beiträge: 293
Wohnort: EST US
well. I just figure out my ps/2 keyboard was messing up things. Somehow its buffer overflowed. Now it's gone. hopefully I won't see XP freezing up.

About dust. I open the case and dust off stuff, but never took the processor fan off. I'll clean that next time.
 
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2radical
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 24.07.2006, 21:09 Uhr



Anmeldung: 07. Dez 2005
Beiträge: 369
Wohnort: Port Angeles, Wa. USA
On the ksensors configuration mainboard sensors, under values the current temp is greyed out. Why doesn't it display the current temp I wonder?

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h2
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 24.07.2006, 21:29 Uhr



Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005

On mine that's not the one that's used, it's another of the main options to the left that actually gets the real cpu / mobo temp. On mine, it's the w83627thf option, your's will probably be different. Of course, your mobo has to support sensors etc in the first place.

Of course, cpu current temp will be grayed out because it's an output, you can't tell it the current temp, or change it, it's a reading of the current temp, not user modifiable. maximum, minimum, etc are mofifiable.

Read up on lm-sensors before proceeding I would recommend.
 
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kstevek
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 24.07.2006, 22:16 Uhr



Anmeldung: 26. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 37

Ok update on the original problem, after finding no log files with any info to help I decided to view it as possible hardware issue. My computers live in a caravan with me and the ambient temperature in the last few weeks has been quite high even with door and windows open, my mobo has no usefull sensor chips to work with lm-sensors so I use a thermistor fixed to the chip touching the core. Temp has been getting to 45c midday on chip which is not too bad really though normal is about 39c. I have in the past replaced the psu fan and arrranged to be able to turn it down with a fanbus but had been getting "hot computer" smells so went back to full power. My psu is of unknown history too so first off I bought a cheap generic 400w new replacement for £20, whilst inside the box I cleaned all the dust out (reasonably ok actually) and reseated the heatsink with new arctic silver and checked all power plugs.
Since firing everything up again my system has been stable for quite a few days through some serious summer heat so maybe the psu was a bit faulty, who knows?
Today Ive found some interesting info about testing psu output and Im going to test the old unit to see if voltages are ok...
Best of luck to everyone whos having freezing problems, check your power supply... Mr. Green

cheers kstevek

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h2
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 24.07.2006, 22:32 Uhr



Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005

I had a bad psu that caused random boot failures, I'd spray contact cleaner on the mobo power connector, it would fix it for a week or two, then it would do the same thing again.

finally I broke down and bought a new psu, and it worked perfectly, never failed to boot again.

There was no other symptom except the random 'failed to boot', when it booted, it was fine.

So sometimes psu and connector issues can be very subtle.

And heat, with the often accompanying power surges, can also fry out your systems.

If you don't use a battery backup unit as your surge protector, it's quite possible your mobo and other hardware will slowly start degenerating over time as they get hit with millisecond power drops etc. I had a mobo die from that last year. Then I bought a battery backup unit.

During summer power fluctuations should be expected, more and more and energy grids become increasingly strained by record heat waves.

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2radical
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 24.07.2006, 22:46 Uhr



Anmeldung: 07. Dez 2005
Beiträge: 369
Wohnort: Port Angeles, Wa. USA
If you don't use a battery backup unit as your surge protector, it's quite possible your mobo and other hardware will slowly start degenerating over time as they get hit with millisecond power drops etc. I had a mobo die from that last year. Then I bought a battery backup unit.

I agree 100% I had a mb die as well I think 3+ yrs ago, so when I bought this box it was included. It's come in handy twice since I've had it due once to lightning & once to a power outage.

Edit: thanks h2--I since read up on lmsensors...

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ironwalker
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 25.07.2006, 18:52 Uhr



Anmeldung: 21. Jan 2005
Beiträge: 454
Wohnort: NYC/NJ Area
Just to update,I have not experianced the problem again.
I have updated to newest kernel so it may have been an issue with my last kernel,the config,and what software and hardware I have.

As I mentioned earlier,its not you standard freezeing,caused by heat,hardware,dirt,etc etc.The mouse worked,thus not a standard pc freeze.
No key combos worked at all.

Oh well,chalked up to gremlins and ghosts.
 
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kstevek
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 28.07.2006, 23:02 Uhr



Anmeldung: 26. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 37

My earlier optimism was missplaced...

Still having the same freezing problem, I cant replicate it at will either, couldnt find anything in any log files that I could find, new psu, clean and tidy in the case, replugged everything, temps good (cooler here now today anyway), newish kernel, tried removing xsreensaver to see if it helped, and every time it happens the mouse pointer still moves but cant click anything so a weird type of freeze/lockup.

If anyone can think what else I could try or what sort of errors might cause this specific type of freeze please join in,

cheers kstevek

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Skip built box, AMD Athlon XP1700,Jetway mobo (no sensors), geforce2 mx400, 512m ram, wireless.
running Kanotix Easter edition, xorg7, kernel 2.6.18.5-slh-up-1, beryl enhanced kde boing boing!
 
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2radical
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 29.07.2006, 00:44 Uhr



Anmeldung: 07. Dez 2005
Beiträge: 369
Wohnort: Port Angeles, Wa. USA
I used to think it was specific to hardware, but now I'm thinking it must be a software glitch somewhere. My problems with freezing have inexplicably disappeared, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed at this point.
It IS weird. My error logs didn't didn't even reflect what had happened, which I think they should, because I had to hit the reset button on my UPS to reboot.
My MB temps are at or below normal, & I cleaned everything thoroughly. I'm running Linux 2.6.16.16-kanotix-1 i686 [ KANOTIX 2006 Easter] No screensavers.
My mouse pointer didn't move, & keyboard was dead. My mouse pointer is occasionally jerky & sometimes disappears off the edge of the screen, but reappears with continued movement & cursing. I'm not sure about the effectiveness of the cursing, but I can't give it up.

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schnorrer
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 29.07.2006, 11:32 Uhr



Anmeldung: 09. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 1720

Guys ther is a prob. with heat and the soldering for the psu connectors.

When running mobo's long overheated, the soldering inside on layer 2 or 3 of the mobo, could get broken. The copper they used is as thin as a hair. Tempr. at the psu connectors ran at 180°C and the soldering flew away.

An other aspect are the capacitores. If they run for a long time at high tempr. they can get dry. No electrolyte inside the capacitors. Means no powering of the componets. Happend to me on at last 2 mobos and a TV.

Also I had a mobo with a buildt-in life-timer. After it has reached ist endtime, the mobo do not run again. This mobo was one of the fist intel LX ones.
 
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2radical
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 29.07.2006, 15:57 Uhr



Anmeldung: 07. Dez 2005
Beiträge: 369
Wohnort: Port Angeles, Wa. USA
schnorrer: You have more experience & knowledge than I, so I take your word for it. However since I'm still able to use this & it hasn't froze for quite a while, I'm not going to go get a new MB (yet). I've had one other MB die after 4 yrs. or so of use. Not sure of the exact source on board, but behaviour became more & more erratic until it would no longer boot & I had to get a whole new system. An expensive prospect. I hope that doesn't happen here anytime soon.

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schnorrer
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 29.07.2006, 16:07 Uhr



Anmeldung: 09. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 1720

I hope too. Here, where I live, we got also troubles with other PC's and OS's. Freezing unconditionally, do not find formerly correct installed HW .....

btw. this happens now the second time. 2001 was the year with the same troubles. Though, it looks like a timebomb to me.
Computer architecture is now at a point, where erverthing is changed.
 
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