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anticapitalista
Titel: GPL requirement could have chilling effect on derivatives  BeitragVerfasst am: 28.06.2006, 21:50 Uhr



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Anyone got any comments on this from NewsForge?

http://software.newsforge.com/article.p ... p;from=rss

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h2
Titel: RE: GPL requirement could have chilling effect on derivative  BeitragVerfasst am: 28.06.2006, 22:47 Uhr



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the comments on newsforge are pretty decent about this.

Really though, before commenting on that story, read the gpl and you'll see there is nothing strange happening, when you distribute gpled stuff you have to follow the gpl, that's the way it is.

There's nothing all that chilling about it, and when you read the comments, you'll see that gpl 2 is pretty easy to obey in this sense, gpl 3 will be a bit harder, but they might also still modify some parts to handle situations like this.

My guess is they just decided to finally call mepis on their stuff because they are moving in an increasingly commercial direction, or trying to, and moving away from debian, so less reason to cut them slack.

I saw the bad results of failing to comply with the gpl in beatrix though, the founder through various circumstances had to move on, and he'd never released the kernel and gnome hacks like he was supposed to, now it's lost, it was a really good lightweight linux, the best I've ever tried, and now it's all lost.

The GPL protects the four basic software freedoms:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

Zitat:
* The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
* The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
* The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
* The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.


It's fairly absurd to maintain that gpl work is worth using and distributing, but at the same time to maintain that the gpl doesn't need to be followed unles the developer feels like it.

If I understand it right, for example, a distro to comply with this only needs to distribute the source for its changed stuff. Makes sense. And since the kernel isn't going to gpl 3 unless they can change Linuses mind, which is unlikely, it will still be covered by 2, which is fairly easy to comply with.
 
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JimC
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 03.07.2006, 05:17 Uhr



Anmeldung: 16. Mar 2005
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I don't keep up with all of the GPL stuff.

I'm just trying to find a Linux distro that I can learn to live with, and SimplyMEPIS is always on my "short list". My wife has been running it for quite a while now, and I've got SimplyMEPIS 6.0 RC1 on my PC now (in a dual boot config with Windows XP Pro) to play with while waiting to see if the final version is any better. I had some problems with RC2, so I'm back to RC1.

Chances are, the final 6.0 release won't be good enough for me to switch from Windows XP yet. But, it's more promising compared to most distros. So, I try to keep trying newer versions as they are released.

I tend to try new Kanotix versions as I see them posted here, too. Even though it doesn't have the codecs installed like Warren does in SimplyMEPIS, it's easier to get everything working in compared to most other distros I've tried.

From my perspective, the biggest hold up to more widespread adoption of Linux is the lack of non-free software already installed (in an effort to only include open source software).

So, if you want support for MP3, Windows Media, QuickTime, Java, Flash, Real Player, ATI drivers, nVidia drivers, Adobe Acrobat Reader, proprietary WiFi drivers, fonts, and so on, you have to install these yourself with most distros (which can be difficult for an average home user).

Suse is probably the most "polished" distro I've tried to date. But, I never did get all of the media stuff working after trying to follow "Hacking Open Suse" articles, and finally gave up on it.

I don't want to learn how to "hack" a distro. I just want one to work without me needing to jump through hoops.

At least Warren already has most plugins and codecs installed in SimplyMEPIS. That's the main reason it stays on my "short list" for a distro I may be able to live with, and why it's on my wife's laptop now.

So, because Warren is "bucking the trend", I think he's probably being singled out.

In any event, some of the Mepis team has commented on it in blogs, like this entry:

http://www.mepis.org/node/10417

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slam
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 03.07.2006, 09:00 Uhr



Anmeldung: 05. Okt 2004
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If people "love" their operating system,
if they follow their "guru" and hunt down every singly word not praising his but,
if the "guru" promises to show you the inner secret of his mystical wonders, but actually never opens the box,
if they tell you it's free and open - but you need to pay to actually get the most recent stuff,
if they use the free and open work others contributed to the world, but don't give proper credit,
if all that would happen here - what would you say?
Greetings,
Chris

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piper
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 03.07.2006, 18:43 Uhr
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Nicely said !

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JimC
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 03.07.2006, 18:47 Uhr



Anmeldung: 16. Mar 2005
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Slam:

Are we talking about Warren Woodford or Bill Gates? Winken

I don't keep up with the free software movement, other than trying to find a desktop OS other than Windows that I can live with.

Heck, if Apple had a version of their OS that would run on non-Apple hardware, I'd consider that option, too (commercial or not).

It's my understanding that Warren doesn't have a problem providing source for the modifications he's made to the kernel for Mepis (at least that's what I get from reading the article).

His gripe seems to be the requirement to mirror all of the source from derivative works he bases SimplyMepis on. In any event, he's stated that he will comply.

Does Kanotix mirror the source for everything it's basing it's distros on?

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h2
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 03.07.2006, 20:17 Uhr



Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
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JimC, this thread answers one question:
http://kanotix.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-19206.html

It's my understanding that for a long time now the source is 'about to get released', but it's also my understanding that mepis has as of yet not released it. That's simply a violation of the gpl. When you distribute gpl'ed software, you must also give access to the source. Not when you feel like it, but when you distribute it. If that's not correct hopefully somebody will correct me.

I suspect that warren has been reluctant to release his source because it's the main competitive advantage he had over other distros. But his reasons are his reasons, he has to deal with the issues at some point.

The gpl is a very interesting license, it's very powerful, and is I think the only one that protects both the producers and the consumers of the software, in terms of giving both rights and obligations. Commercial software, if you've ever read the dreaded EULA, gives the user absolutely no protection, in fact, it usually doesn't even give the user the right to own the software, even though they bought it. Amazing but true. It only protects the producer.

So when you use gpl software and operating systems, it is not in fact just another option, it's a fairly unique thing in the software world. And a model that is working extremely well so far in terms of protecting everyone, not just the owner of the code.

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JimC
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 03.07.2006, 21:08 Uhr



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Thanks.. It sounds like Kano is making an effort to provide all source with Kanotix.

I think I understand the basic concept of how the GPL works. I really haven't give much though to it's pros and cons, though.

I can remember one debate on a digital camera forum recently about why more commercial software companies like Adobe don't provide their image editing applications for Linux, and one reason submitted by a user was because of the GPL (with the implication being that it's too restrictive since commercial companies would have to release the source for modifications made to GPL'd code in their products).

We were discussing the lack of color management solutions in Linux using products like the GIMP, and how the availability of LittleCMS (which is under the MIT License versus the GPL) could help to change how commercial software companies perceive the Linux market niche if it becomes a widely accpeted solution for color management (and more than one image editor for Linux is already making use of it for color management, including Krita in KOffice).

Although I can appreciate the concept of "giving back to the community", at the same time, I'd like to see more and better commercial software offerings for Linux so that it becomes a more serious competitor for the desktop.

So, from my perspective (wanting to find a better desktop compared to Windows, while still being able to use more popular commercial software products), a compromise somewhere in the middle would be nice.

Perhaps that's a short sighted way of thinking and it would do the move to the Linux desktop more harm than good in the long run. Again, I really haven't given it a lot of though so far.

As for Warren and SimplyMEPIS, I'm only seeing bits and pieces of both sides. But, from what I've seen stated on their web site, they intend to comply with the Free Software Foundation's requests by the time SimplyMEPIS 6.0 goes final (currently slated for around July 10, unless it gets delayed because of this issue).

You can see what they said about it at this link:

http://www.mepis.org/source

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h2
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 03.07.2006, 21:29 Uhr



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Mepis has been 'intending to comply with the gpl' for as long as I can remember. You can't continuously be intending to do a thing that you have to do to remain within the terms of the license you are agreeing to when you use gpled software.

The difference between the kanotix approach, which I was happy to see is the right one, that is, read the gpl, then obey its requirements, and the mepis approach, for years promise to do what you should do from the beginning, is quite striking to me, and does not require further comment. Except to note that it did not surprise me at all to read here that kanotix follows the gpl requrements.

The main reason adobe isn't releasing photoshop for linux is that there is not enough market share to justify it, it's a cart and horse problem. Real world fulltime linux desktop percentage numbers are not high, much lower than osx numbers. However, crossover office runs photoshop 7 fine, if that's an absolute requirement.

I've read many interviews with people connected to this, and its market share more than anything else that stops adobe in this area. That's what the crossover office/wine team said for example when disney talked to adobe about porting photoshop to linux. Instead, crossover got the contract to get wine to run photoshop for the disney graphics linux workstations etc.

Zitat:
because of the GPL (with the implication being that it's too restrictive since commercial companies would have to release the source for modifications made to GPL'd code in their products).


the gpl is not 'too restrictive', it's exactly as restrictive as it needs to be in order to protect the user and the producer. Personally, I'd say that the big software companies like adobe and microsoft, and to a lesser extent apple, are 'too greedy'.

From where I'm sitting, I'm getting to like all the open source stuff more and more, the days I find myself using any commerial software at all, or missing its features, are becoming increasingly rare week by week.

What I would suggest to people who absolutely must have a platform that offers native support for commercial big scale software is to simply accept that's the case, and just go with apple, or worst case, windows.

Commercial software will come to linux once the companies that make it sniff the possibility to make money, that's their primary concern always. The gpl may limit some of their options, but that's not a weakness of linux, it's a strength, I don't want a system that compromises users/programmers rights in exchange for the ability of software companies to pull in obscene profits while giving nothing at all back ever.

To me, the real source of amazement is that, despite having such a tiny desktop market share, linux desktops, kde, gnome, xfce, all of them, are showing such amazingly good quality applications, tools, and windows managers. Konqueror, for example, is as far as I know, unequaled on any platform. gwenview is great, digikam is great, k3b is very good, audacity is excellent, xmms is great, amarok is great, plus all the gnu apps and the shell.

The kernel is solid, the platform is very stable, now that kde has fixed some bugs, my kde hasn't failed me for months on end, still the odd application freeze that requires an x restart, but never a reboot.

What really is locking it in for me however is not the daily messing around I do on the machine, it's when I do real, paying work, that's when linux desktops shine in my opinion, and it's when I can more and more see that this is a really good platform to get work done on. Maybe not high end graphics work though.
 
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JimC
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 03.07.2006, 22:01 Uhr



Anmeldung: 16. Mar 2005
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I dunno....

I can remember reading the results of a survey not long ago (sponsered by Novell, if memory serves) that Photoshop is the most requested application for Linux.

So, from my perspective, it would seem like a no brainer for Adobe to port it, unless there is something else stopping them, and I've seen the GPL broght up in some of the forum discussions about it. Maybe that's not the issue at all. But, it seems to me that more photographers would probably switch to Linux if Photoshop was available and since it's already the most requested product for Linux (if the surveys are right), they'd have customers to start out with.

Many photographers base their workflow around it, and the older versions of Photoshop that you can get to run under Wine and derivatives like CrossOver Office don't support the newest release of Adobe Camera Raw (which is required to support raw files from newer cameras). You need Photoshop CS2 to get support for the latest Adobe Camera Raw plugins.

There are alternatives to Photoshop and Adobe Camera Raw available. But, I'll give Thomas Knoll credit -- Adobe Camera Raw simply does a better job for some things (for example, recovering from blown highlights and maximizing dynamic range from raw images).

Could I live without it? Sure. I use alternatives often, including dcraw.c

But, a number of Photoshop users are not going to use any other product.

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h2
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 03.07.2006, 23:26 Uhr



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Zitat:
a number of Photoshop users are not going to use any other product.


It's all about real world market share numbers. Professional photographers mostly use mac os x, some use windows.

That's already a very small market.

It's upto adobe, when they decide to port photoshop to linux, then it will be ported. They already switched from mac first to windows first, and that's also a direct function of market share.

Best estimates of overall linux desktop penetration is around 0.5%, at most. Mac is around 3% last I checked. If you deduct the number of dual booters from that total, the ones with access to a working windows that they use for things they can't do on linux, I'd be scared to think of just how small that number would be. Only once that number of users breaks some unknown point will adobe consider it worthwhile. Meanwhile, the native linux graphics apps just keep getting better and better.

Do the math, that's why adobe hasn't released a linux version. It's 10 to 1 odds they have an internal development port already, since supporting osx is not a huge leap from supporting another unix like system. But this is for profit software, they have to have a real reason to do that. Microsoft dropped msie support for macs, and almost dropped office support, that was touch and go for a while. And adobe still hasn't released a native os x intel build of their stuff last time I checked, maybe they have by now, not sure.

It's all about how much software they expect to move for that platform. If the number is high enough, then they will support it. It's clearly not a gpl thing, adobe has releases of both macromedia's flash player and adobe acrobat reader for linux. That's numbers too, almost all linux users will want, or might want, or use, those products, whereas MOST linux users not only would not want photoshop, they prefer the very useable and pretty good quality gimp or whatever other graphics product the user prefers, krita, whatever.

I use graphics stuff professionally, but just to do basic stuff, as do many other linux users, and it's completely adequate for my needs. Which is probably why there isn't all that much demand for expensive proprietary solutions, except among professionals who use those tools. That's just not very many people. On windows, for example, photoshop depends on all those average users who really would be totally fine with what digikam or gimp can do to sell enough units. That essentially subsidizes the professional users, if you get my point. If it weren't for all those average photoshop users who really don't need its power, photoshop would be an extremely expensive application, thousands of dollars.

<added>sorry, this is not at all related to the topic of this thread, drifted off.

I recommend if you want to continue this particular discussion you start a new thread about this question.
 
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schnorrer
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 04.07.2006, 01:44 Uhr



Anmeldung: 09. Jan 2006
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h2 have you had a look isie photosop from Adobe? They did the compiling under *nix*
 
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h2
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 04.07.2006, 03:09 Uhr



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Haven't heard of isie photoshop, googled it didn't find it. Personally I have no interest in photoshop at all, I don't really like adobe products in general, and now that macromedia is adobe, I don't see a great future for macromedia stuff either.

In fact, I just found a significantly better, and open source, tool to do the one thing I used photoshop for, making gallery images, so now photoshop is only an abstract question for me. I get that pros need it because of its features of course, but there's no requirement for everyone out there to run linux, diversity is a good thing.

To me the question is only interesting because linux photoshop comes up so often, and it's always graphics pros who need it. I actually don't really understand the problem, os x is fine, most of the commercial stuff runs on that, is well supported, and has a good track record, so why not just use mac if this type of software is something you need? OS X has fine security too, being a unix type system. Surely it can't be because they want a free as in beer system, those applications each cost many times more than either a full xp or os x disk, and the new intel core duo macs are decent hardware, adequate anyway.

but, again, this isn't really topically related to the chilling, or not so chilling, effect of following the gpl on gpl based software and distros, maybe a new thread? Returning to that, it's really nice seeing just how fast all the media processing stuff is improving in the gpl part of the software world, the gap between the needs of professionals and what the apps can do, or will be able to do, is shrinking. And if it's like other stuff I've tried out, one day it may just come down to being willing to learn a different way to do things. That's not today, but that day may come, fairly soon, krita is working on 16 bit color processing, not sure where it's at now, other apps are also moving fast.
 
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Debianista
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 05.07.2006, 03:26 Uhr



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So far as I can see, no one is waiting for Kano to release any source.....its all available....while its been years now of Mepis skirting the issue and flaming people who bring up the GPL ..... and while it is a good newb distro ready for out of the box use, the overall feel is summed up by Chrises post above.......when something like Kanotix is out there that is pure Debian with bleeding edge 'improvements' and utilities but is as Debian sid compatible as Mepis was, I'll invest some time and effort into using what is a bit more of an advanced distro that is 100% GPL legal.
Mepis is clearly wavering on a number of issues and their recent break with the DCC and onto ubuntu kernels means why not run ubuntu then....or any other distro that doesnt switch kernels in mid stream or walk out of debian coalition after debian coalition? It might be 'stable' for a new user to send emails and play MP3s, but if you start using your box for more, theres a good chance you ll be left high and dry by Mepis diletantism and a very cultish user base community. Which, at the end of the day, is sad because the software is well made and put together...

I may try Mepis occaisonally these days (then again maybe not) but I will trust and be able to rely on kanotix, which thanks to the GPL allows users to keep using the system even if they repackage it under another name, or Kano drops the project .....
 
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wegface
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 05.07.2006, 08:05 Uhr



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Most mepis community members dont run mepis.... hehehe- does that tell you anything? Warren should release that source code immediatly- then we can all benefit from his tasty installer and detection code hehe. Peace

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anticapitalista
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 05.07.2006, 13:58 Uhr



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wegface hat folgendes geschrieben::
Most mepis community members dont run mepis.... hehehe- does that tell you anything? Warren should release that source code immediatly- then we can all benefit from his tasty installer and detection code hehe. Peace


I don't know where you got that info from, but I doubt it is true. What you might mean is that several people who frequent the Mepis forums have "moved on" to other distros or use Mepis and others too. That comes as no surprise really as Mepis is unashamedly for new users and once people have more experience of linux they often move to more "demanding" distros.
I'm one of them I use Mepis, Kanotix and Debian sid.

About the GPL, I really do hope that Warren will comply and I also hope he will make available the source code for his installer and oscenter and it doesn't get lost to the world like the Libranet one has.

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wegface
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 05.07.2006, 15:07 Uhr



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Thats the impression ive got from the mepis irc channel- generally speaking the people doing the helping are not running mepis- for reasons that you rightly stated. Compare that to kanotix irc where most uses are actually running kanotix. I'm not anti mepis- i have it installed on a small partition- and boot to it once in a while. Unfortunatly im hooked on the distrowatch rss bookmark in kanotix- which forces me to download nearly every linux distro released Lachen

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JimC
Titel: SimplyMEPIS update on Source Code  BeitragVerfasst am: 29.07.2006, 15:50 Uhr



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Warren has updated the his web site with more info on satisfiying the requirements given to him by the FSF:

http://www.mepis.org/node/10725

As you can tell from previous remarks, he doesn't like it that he must distribute the source code, even if he never had it to begin with (including binaries in the distro from other sources).

In any event, he agreed to comply, and the source for GPL'd pacakges in SimplyMEPIS is now available for a nominal fee ($29.95):

http://www.mepis.org/source

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Cathbard
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 30.07.2006, 07:09 Uhr
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All very interesting but I think it can be summed up in two words:

"Kanotix Rocks".

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slam
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 30.07.2006, 11:58 Uhr



Anmeldung: 05. Okt 2004
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Well, I have tried Mepis 2 years ago, actually before I found Kanotix. Since it released a somewhat "milestone release" with version 6 recently, I gave it a 2nd try yesterday and installed to a test-partition. What I got was a more or less standard Kubuntu + Automatix (or Easybuntu), additionally optimized for kindergarten. Winken

Really, I don't like this childish theme at all, the colorfull icons - and specially the very important "applications" in the taskbar. I really love fish - for dinner, but do I need an aquarium in the kicker?

The package selection is very limited and not perfect. Nothing against the 1-task/1-application philosophy, I support that for Linux beginners, too. But How could one select XaraLX? It's a highly professional tool and quickly developing, but today it's in a very early beta state, far from usable.

The Mepis kernel with it's pre-patched modules is not what I expected. Warren's kernels have seen better days. Although promised on the web site, neither Nvidia 6600 on a standard HP Pavillion, nore a Mobility Radeon 9200 in a Sony Vaio laptop did have 3d hardware acceleration after install. Both commercial drivers where included and somehow installed, but not configured correctly. Better not include them, as "commercial kernel drivers are illegal", anyway.

A lot of other commercial stuff is included (just read up the legal section of the web site to see all the commercial licenses involved) - most of them not relevant to me. However, it would be impossible to roll out and support this distribution to my clients without getting into decent legal trouble. Not just that the GNU/GPL is abused and raped (which is a crime against every open source developer on this planet, and a slap in the face of every contributor to the linux kernel), but several other licenses conflict with each other and/or with the GPL.

Mepis is very US-centric. It comes with US-locales configured only, and even after HD-install it's not trivial to get everything working in a different language.

I did not find much of interest. But there are some nice ideas included, however:

1) Spashy is used for the bootsplash instead of the bootsplash kernel module. That's good practice, several other distributors already have done, or will do the same (including Kanotix).

2) The installer includes some useful additional choices, i.e. pre-configuration of samba and change of host name. Although we provide the same functionality with extra scripts, it's a nice idea to concentrate them in the installer. It's trivial to do so, and enhances the user experience (what a word! Winken ) for beginners.

3) The KDE theme and style is polished and slightly differs from KDE defaults (most of that is Kubuntu-work). That makes you feel using a professional system, which is a good psychological effect. We are working on doing similiar things for the next Kanotix-release.

So, my conclusion: If you really want an Ubuntu based KDE distro and desperately need all the commercial stuff, and don't care for Debian incompatibility and restricted package choice - go and get Kubuntu, and make use of Automatix/Easybuntu-scripts. I really did expect more from Warren - kinda of a perfect Kubuntu. Mepis does promise a lot, but actually fails to deliver most of the promised gifts.

It would be obvious now to add a line about how much better Kanotix is - but you all know that already, and don't really need me to tell you. Smilie

Greetings,
Chris

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2radical
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 05.08.2006, 07:05 Uhr



Anmeldung: 07. Dez 2005
Beiträge: 369
Wohnort: Port Angeles, Wa. USA
Zitat:
Well, I have tried Mepis 2 years ago, actually before I found Kanotix.
I too tried Mepis before I tried Kanotix. Suprising to me was how Kanotix ran more smoothly. Installation was easy with both. Recently my brother had the Kubuntu "Easybuntu" installed & I thought it was kinda ridiculous, & as slam mentioned the pkg selection IS limited, I think due to the sources. I found the amount of commercial crap to be offensive, & agree it IS a "slap in the face" to GNU/GPL contributors, but that's just my opinion which ain't worth all that much in the grand scheme of things but I don't think many people care about that. I've installed that stuff, but have since removed them, cause I felt guilty about it, which is kinda weird, but I've made things work ok without them. On the plus side Mepis did have a nice "look" to it after changing the ugly default desktop wallpaper & icon sizes for him, but for reasons I can't readily identify here, it just seemed more clunky for lack of a better word. He's since emailed me with a bunch of install questions which my answers don't seem to apply, which I think may be due to basic incompatibility w/Debian, although I'm not sure. My suggestions are met with error messages on his end.

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h2
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 05.08.2006, 09:41 Uhr



Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005

I also tried mepis before I tried kanotix, but I found it annoying, it was the closest thing to windows that wasn't windows I'd used. I liked the easy install of stuff I didn't really know how to install, but that wasn't good enough for my taste.

Then I found kanotix 2005-2 I think it was, and I started using kanotix on a second box, as a media player, just to get a feel for it. Then I got apache/mysql/php running and I realized it was only a matter of time before I switched full time off windows. Then I just gave up and switched all the way to kanotix and I'm not regretting it.

I waited until 2005-4 to switch because I wanted to start out with the full stable release. All the people out there who complain about the wait, stop it, it's worth the wait, it's better to have stable than broken for your starting point, so when it's stable it will be ready, not before.

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JimC
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 05.08.2006, 16:29 Uhr



Anmeldung: 16. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 219

slam hat folgendes geschrieben::
The package selection is very limited and not perfect. Nothing against the 1-task/1-application philosophy, I support that for Linux beginners, too. But How could one select XaraLX? It's a highly professional tool and quickly developing, but today it's in a very early beta state, far from usable.


Errr umm..

XaraLX is preinstalled in SimplyMEPIS 6.0 Winken

As for package selection, you can add repositories.

I don't know a lot about Linux. But, shouldn't most applications designed for Debain run, as long as they're not drivers?

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slam
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 05.08.2006, 16:57 Uhr



Anmeldung: 05. Okt 2004
Beiträge: 2069
Wohnort: w3
Zitat:
XaraLX is preinstalled in SimplyMEPIS 6.0

Well, I meant "how dare could they select it to be pre-installed?" We all recently tested it, it's going to be a very interesting application - whne it's ready. XaraLX is pre-Beta - definitely not the right choice for the default image editor on a mainstream distro dedicated to beginners.

Zitat:
As for package selection, you can add repositories.
I don't know a lot about Linux. But, shouldn't most applications designed for Debian run, as long as they're not drivers?

No, you cannot freely install and run any Debian package you find on Ubuntu/Mepis - you're at high risk of breaking the packaging system that way (the same is true for Ubuntu/Mepis packages on Kanotix/Debian, by the way). You want recognize it immediately, the installed package might even run without problems, but you will definitely get into troubles installing/upgrading later on. Please consult the Ubuntu Wiki and Forum for various Articles and Reports about this problem. Ubuntu /Mepis is intentionally very limited in it's general Debian compatibility. Ubuntu maintainer prepare for you just a small selection of Debian, not more than 10% of the application base you have at your fingertips when using real Debian.

Greetings,
Chris

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JimC
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 05.08.2006, 17:35 Uhr



Anmeldung: 16. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 219

slam hat folgendes geschrieben::
Zitat:
XaraLX is preinstalled in SimplyMEPIS 6.0

Well, I meant "how dare could they select it to be pre-installed?" We all recently tested it, it's going to be a very interesting application - whne it's ready. XaraLX is pre-Beta - definitely not the right choice for the default image editor on a mainstream distro dedicated to beginners.


Sorry, I misunderstood you.

Yes, removing the Gimp and installing Xara LX doesn't make any sense to me. From what I can tell from looking at Xara LX, it's got zero features geared towards photographers. It seems to be geared towards graphics designers instead. As popular as Digital Photography is becoming, I don't understand the logic of including it instead of the Gimp. Although the Gimp has it's faults, it's more suitable for image editing.

If I decide to leave SimplyMEPIS running (I've been running it since it went final), I'll probably uninstall Xara LX so that it's not wasting disk space.

As for packages breaking the distro, I haven't had a major problem yet. But, I'm only pointing at the Ubuntu repositories right now (other than when I used Automatix to install some extras).

I'm sure there are cons to any distro. From a beginner's perspective (that's me), SimplyMEPIS is easier to get everything working in compared to most other distros I've tried, and since the Ubuntu community is quite large (and SimplyMEPIS is now based on Ubuntu), it's easy to get help in the forums. For example, I managed to figure out how to correct a printer setup problem, juist by visiting the Ubuntu forums (I had multiple responses to my issue in a matter of a few minutes).

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