kanotix.com
Installation - another weird install
2radical - 19.07.2006, 03:26 Uhr
Titel: another weird install
After this last install of Easter (I've installed it several times for a variety of reasons) I notice when I click the Home icon on the panel Konqueror goes to /home/joyboy with all the expected folders except an extra joyboy which is /home/joyboy/joyboy. They are the same except /home/joyboy reflects more current files. I wonder--why do I need two user (joyboy) folders, & why did this occur? Not only that, when I click on the HD icons on the desktop
10G Media=media:/hda1
20G Media=media:/hda2
5.0G Media=media:/hda5
/media/hda1 shows a home folder containing hda2, home, & joyboy folders. Why hda2 was created, I don't know, but it contains yet another joyboy folder! I intended for /media/hda2 to be a separate partition for /home.
media:/hda2 - Konqueror shows it to contain hda2, home, & joyboy just like media:/hda1 does.
I specified during installation /dev/hda1=root, /dev/hda2=home, dev/hda3=swap, and that hda5 would be for backups. I'm confused. It seems things didn't get overwritten or things were left behind from a previous install. It drives me crazy, because I like things to be tidy & organized.
I initially noticed all this when I was examining my backups on hda5 & they appeared weird to me so I got rid of those backups. Why backup a screwy system? I want to get this fixed so I can have a clean backup, & was thinking that I should just delete the redundant home & joyboy directories. Any suggestions?
schnorrer - 19.07.2006, 04:01 Uhr
Titel: another weird install
First when you install /home/joyboy resides under /dev/hda1/home/joyboy. That is usual. next you have create a 2.Part. with the mountpoint /home and don't move the original /home/joyboby to hda2/home/. An other folder for joyboy was created. Than the mountpoint /hda2/home/joyboy was moved/joined to /hda1/home/joyboy/joyboy.
Just a bit weird and crazy. Hard to understand but it may? be a bug during partitioning. It'll occure when you have a very fast cpu and a HD with an extra-large write-cache. And as a 2nd point, a too quick response from the HD, which reply Ready-Write, while the written Data isn't realy written.
Normaly this should not happen.
Tip for the next time: do the Partitioing before the installing script. 2. after creaating /hda1/ and /hda2/home with your fdisk-programm, do a reboot and than run the installing script. When the srcipt comes to the point for creating the partitions, don't let the script do this, only formatting shoul be done by the script.
2radical - 19.07.2006, 05:17 Uhr
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Zitat:
Tip for the next time: do the Partitioing before the installing script.
I did re-partition before the initial install of Easter from 2005-04. But not on following installs of Easter RC4. I wouldn't think that was necessary.
Zitat:
2. after creating /hda1/ and /hda2/home with your fdisk-programm, do a reboot and than run the installing script. When the srcipt comes to the point for creating the partitions, don't let the script do this, only formatting shoul be done by the script.
I used cfdisk to create partitions. By "installing script" I guess you mean the HD install from live-cd? I checked the box to specify mount points & entered /dev/hda for /, dev/hda2 for /home, /dev/hda3 for swap & /dev/hda5 for unused logical partition for backups, as I recall.
It's no wonder I had such difficulty getting the paths correct for making the backup. I am considering deleting the older extra folders & see if I can still reboot. If not, then I will have to install again. 
I'm getting very tired of doing that.
h2 - 19.07.2006, 06:03 Uhr
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In your case, I'd leave nothing to chance, you've had too many issues.
grab the gparted livecd, reformat partitions, then run the installer.
schnorrer - 19.07.2006, 14:54 Uhr
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yes for your guess.
Fresh install or update-install?
On fresh-install there might be an error at the last menu-page where you got the options:
save and run ### marked as default. can cause this error if formatting with an FS is not done
recheck save and run ### this warns if formating has to be done normaly no errors for FS and Reformating
do not check config and run ### does run but when one mount namley your hda2 is not formated, uses the defaults for mountpoints
and a force run. ### does run without checking anything. and stops when an error occure.
With the 1. option and no formating for hda2 and no warning or error otherwise calls format hda2 a 2nd time with /user on hda1 activated
with the 2. option no formating for hda2 is done, but the entry for /hda2/home is made in the fs/mtab
with the 3. option nothing happens with hda2 and, fstab and mtab doesn't get an entry.
the last you've go thru the whole install process when a erreor occure.
if you have done an update install and only created hda2 extra for home can also cose this error.
an other cause for this error can made by cfdisk. fdisk lets you give a label for hda2 and you have forgotten to set this label to home. Than the same error you got is present.
Cfdisk handles labels as Mountpoints, not like fdisk, where a label a label is.
2radical - 19.07.2006, 17:36 Uhr
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Zitat:
Fresh install or update-install?
I haven't done update-install--always fresh.
Last time I received no error messages on the last menu page.
Before installing RC4, I used cfdisk to partition, put a boot flag on hda1, then used Konsole mkreiserfs to format, then did install.
I will try using gparted 0.2.5-3 live-cd to reformat all partitions & another fresh install. At least I'm getting quicker at it.
2radical - 19.07.2006, 19:44 Uhr
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OK I did the install after reformatting with gparted cd. The extra folder are gone as I expected.
/media/hda1 has home with joyboy
" "2 also has joyboy
both with Desktop, none, tmp folders. This is much more tidy. I need a break from this so after I install nano I'm off to my brother-in-laws to have a few beers. Thank you for your assistance (again)
kurt
h2 - 19.07.2006, 20:12 Uhr
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I had a similar reiserfs event happen in another context, it was solved by just reformatting, slightly different than yours, but it sounded familiar to me.
I think in your case it was a good idea to do it again. Once you finally get this stuff stabilized, you'll have far more understanding of this debian stuff than you probably ever hoped to have. I had many many failed and borked installs by the way before I ended up with a stable working desktop. I actually waited until 2005-4 release for almost 6 months because I knew the changes from 2005-3 were significant, and I wanted a working desktop.
The gparted livecd is very good, anyone who hasn't downloaded it should grab it, don't use the installer partitioner at all, no point, gparted is very strong, getting better all the time.
By the way, should you need to restore your root partition due to problems, make sure to reformat it too before restoring, or you might have similar issues. For the extra paranoid you can overwrite it with zeros, cat /dev/zero > /dev/hda1 I think is the command, but be massively careful with that command, it's fatal to all data. That solved a similar 64 bit kanotix reinstall issue I had, kano told me that one, and it fixed the problem right away.
2radical - 19.07.2006, 20:38 Uhr
Titel:
Thanks for the reply & tip about restoring. I wouldn't have thought to reformat before a root restore. Would the same be true for restoring /home? Like you say, doing all this has helped me learn. I couldn't have done it without the Kanotix village, though. 
h2 - 19.07.2006, 21:29 Uhr
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I'm not sure about the /home restore to be honest. I've never done one. My guess is that you'd be relatively safe not formatting, but sometimes the best way to know for sure is to actually try it.
I think my inclination, since I'm using rdiff-backup, which has some issues now and then, would be to restore my /home after reformatting the partition. But I'm not sure, I'd think about it first.
Using cp -a especially I don't know, it's best if someone who has used the specific method you're using for backup and restore of data comments from personal experience. Unfortunately my install is too stable for me to get that experience currently, I'm sad to say. 
Swynndla - 19.07.2006, 22:53 Uhr
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I've had problems using "cp -a" when restoring to a whole partition (but not that I know a lot - I'm probably doing something wrong) ... but rdiff-backups seems to take care of partitions just fine.
As for installing and having a separate home partition, I've only done it once, but I'd probably do it the same way again:
- create my partitions including a separate home partition
- install to hda1 without specifying a separate home partition
- after install, manually change things over to the proper home parition
... it's just that I feel I have more control doing it that way.
h2 - 19.07.2006, 23:11 Uhr
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the manual change is a lot harder though than just having the kanotix installer do it for you from the beginning. More steps, have to modify /etc/fstab, and so on. For advanced users more I'd say.
Swynndla - 19.07.2006, 23:48 Uhr
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2radical hat folgendes geschrieben::
I checked the box to specify mount points & entered /dev/hda for /, dev/hda2 for /home, /dev/hda3 for swap & /dev/hda5 for unused logical partition for backups, as I recall.
You mean /dev/hda1 for / right? (not /dev/hda for/ right?)
h2 ... yea the manual change is harder ... but I always think to myself (half an hour before I get into trouble) "how hard can it be"
... from memory I think I only did as root user (after booting from live cd and mounting the drives as read-write ... assuming hda1 is root and hda2 is for home):
mv /media/hda1/home/* /media/hda2
rmdir /media/hda1/home
... and then I edited /media/hda1/etc/fstab to replace:
/dev/hda2 /media/hda2 ...
with:
/dev/hda2 /home ...
... and it worked ... and it didn't seem tooo hard for me.
stryder - 20.07.2006, 01:54 Uhr
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I for one will always reformat before I restore a backup. Reformatting is just a simple command. And doing so will remove a possibility should I need to troubleshoot any errors.
2radical - 20.07.2006, 05:33 Uhr
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Zitat:
You mean /dev/hda1 for / right? (not /dev/hda for/ right?)
Yes--that's what I mean--Although hda1 is automatically assigned when installing without specifying. Hda is simply the whole hard drive, defined as "hard disk assembly". So hda1 is where everything goes unless otherwise specified, as I understand. It's always important to check spelling, etc. when others are depending on others on accuracy which may totally F*** up a system if things aren't specified correctly. An interesting proposition on a multi-lingual forum such as Kanotix, heehee. We do the best we can, eh? e.g.:(oops--sorry 'bout that) Makes things interesting...I love it... 
Oh boy--reformatting before a restore--I really think that this should be emphasized more than it is because, idiot that I am, it would have saved me a lot of problems. I now don't depend on installation scripts to take care of everything, although I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to--especially for those wanting to wanting to shift from MS Windows to Linux who don't have an understanding of the basics. (Not to suggest that I do...) I'm constantly amazed about how dumb I am!
schnorrer - 20.07.2006, 11:15 Uhr
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welcome to the club with partitions, formatings an missunderstanding some bascis where special folders should reside on the HD's
Next time will be in 2 or 3 days, I do a comlpetly new setup on a differen PC.
Base situation.
80 gig HD with no part. created before.
what I try is: boot the CD with cheat init 1. Single user, no network, X-server, mouse, printer or so.
use fdisk to simulate the parts. you post. ex. reiserFS but still ext3
use the installing script from console. Yes this should work.
next take a look if I get weird config like you tell.
If not weird, I try the install the way you do but with ext3.
except. I leave the parts. and do only a reformating.
Weird, situation like yours, I try to findout what's wrong with the script. A report here, of no/success follows.
Swynndla - 20.07.2006, 13:08 Uhr
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"a newbe can not be proud to have that status forever"
- Kano
schnorrer - 20.07.2006, 14:20 Uhr
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I'm not a newbee.
Installing using troubleshoot yes my expirience, Programming not. (I hate programming)
Swynndla - 21.07.2006, 11:54 Uhr
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Oh sorry schnorrer ... I was responding to 2radical's post where he said:
Zitat:
especially for those wanting to wanting to shift from MS Windows to Linux who don't have an understanding of the basics. (Not to suggest that I do...) I'm constantly amazed about how dumb I am!
... I was trying to say that 2radical does have an understanding of the basics now (and I didn't see your post on the 2nd page) ... and you definately aren't a newbie!
2radical - 21.07.2006, 16:19 Uhr
Titel:
I think this time to back up, I'm going to use:
Code:
rsync -av /home/joyboy media/hda5
after I install & update a couple more apps [nothing printing related.]
I had some difficulty using cp before, but that may have been because of all my weird paths. And to (live-cd) restore:
Code:
rsync -av /media/hda5/joyboy /home
Eventually I may want to write a script to do this automatically at a certain time.
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