kanotix.com
General Support - Desktop freezing
kstevek - 12.07.2006, 00:50 Uhr
Titel: Desktop freezing
Hi to all,
I've been experiencing strange desktop freezing where everything stops except the mouse pointer, all I can do is move that about the screen though, no response to clicks or hovering over links. The keyboard does nothing either though I do resort to a tricky keyboard manouver to restart the whole box safely (crtl+alt+sysrq+r then again with +s,+e,+i,+u,+b) dont know what it does but it works.
I've been looking into what mixes of stuff i've had running and kwifimanager in taskbar seems to upset things with only firefox, gaim and konqueror on desktop, conky is there too in background.
Something like this used to happen very infrequently a few months/kernels ago (on 2.6.17.3-slh-up-1 just now) I need to know how and where to look for clues, which log file?
Any ideas?
cheers kstevek
schnorrer - 12.07.2006, 02:25 Uhr
Titel: Desktop freezing
/var/log/messages
~/kdeerrors.log
gardyloo - 12.07.2006, 03:31 Uhr
Titel:
About the tricky keyboard maneuver:
LEFT Alt + SysRq + ...
r: Puts keyboard in "raw" mode. You might try hitting Ctrl+Alt+Backspace to kill the X now. If that doesn't work, then carry on:
s: Attempts to synchronize the disk (write all unsaved data to disk).
e: Sends termination signal to all processes except init.
i: Sends kill to all processes except init.
u: Attempts to unmount all mounted filesystems read-only. Avoids the file-system check upon reboot.
b: Reboots the system. Equivalent to just resetting it if the rest of the sequence hasn't been followed.
zulu9 - 12.07.2006, 15:09 Uhr
Titel:
wow. didn't know these nice key-combos. I didn't even know that a key "SysRq" exists 
seems in linux, you almost never have to hit the reset-button or power off 
Richard - 12.07.2006, 16:02 Uhr
Titel:
I used to have to use this a lot when I ran Mandrake. Learned about it from the Mandrake users forum. There is a phrase:
Raising Skinny Elephants iS Utterly Boring
Alt+SysReq then R=Raising ; try Ctl+Alt+Bksp after commands.
Alt+SysReq then S=Skinny ; do these with pauses and read messages
Alt+SysReq then E=Elephants ;
Alt+SysReq then S=S ; use the S
Alt+SysReq then U=Utterly ;
Alt+SysReq then B=Boring ; reBoots. I think O turns off computer
This will usually overcome a locked/unresponsive keyboard problem.
You could also open a terminal with Ctrl+Alt+F1 (F2, F3, etc.), login with permissions desired, run top / htop and kill the offending app.
Then switch back to the GUI with Ctrl+Alt+F7.
gardyloo - 12.07.2006, 19:50 Uhr
Titel:
Zitat:
seems in linux, you almost never have to hit the reset-button or power off
For some reason (I have no idea what, but it made me laugh), that made me remember a quote I found on bash.org last night:
Zitat:
using linux is like using windows, except every time you try to do something like install a program or a driver or set a different resolution, a big black dude runs in and kicks you in the side of the head.
-bash.org
kstevek - 12.07.2006, 20:33 Uhr
Titel:
@Richard,
yup "raising the skinny elephant" is what i first came accross it as, cant remember where but its saved me a few times.
When my desktop freezes though i have no response from the keyboard in the normal way so no chance to open a terminal or restart x (crtl+alt+backspace) only the "elephant" will do...
@schnorrer,
/var/log/messages is allways empty and i cant find ~/kdeerrors.log where else might i find some information?
has anyone else had a lock up exactly like this?
cheers kstevek
slam - 12.07.2006, 21:18 Uhr
Titel:
Since 2 years I use Kanotix and my desktop never froze ... should I worry?
Pitty, actually I really would love to use the commands above.
Greetings,
Chris
kstevek - 12.07.2006, 23:03 Uhr
Titel:
lol slam,
i'd rather mine didnt though, need to find out why it does.
cheers kstevek
schnorrer - 14.07.2006, 01:11 Uhr
Titel:
Where to find else: ~/.kde/tmp-'BOXNAME'/konqueror-crash or ~/.xsession-errors or in one of the /var/log/*.log files.
ironwalker - 16.07.2006, 17:05 Uhr
Titel:
I just experianced this for the first time ever in my life two days ago.ctrl+alt+backspace didnt work,I reset the pc.I have had frozen pc's before but not like this where only the mouse pointer works.I wish I can pinpoint what program caused this.I will have a look in some logs.
By the way,only happend once when I came to my pc in the late afternoon after 5 hrs no use.
schnorrer - 16.07.2006, 17:26 Uhr
Titel:
Why have you told your btw so late. The unconditional Freeze can coused from dirty connectors inside the PC.
Where does your PC stand? dirty, dusty, wet room?
Sometimes it helps to clean the PC inside from dust. Should solve the Freezing.
If not it could be somtheing wrong with the powersupply. Remove and change it bey a new one.
2radical - 22.07.2006, 17:24 Uhr
Titel:
Recently I've had to reset using firefox when nothing works--keyboard, mouse. Last time I was reading Richards post when it happened again. The keyboard combos didn't work. How could they when it wasn't accepting input in the first place? Not good. I think I'll go buy a can of compressed air or something. My power supply is new (2nd one) I'm using Konqueror now which I don't like as well, but so far it hasn't locked up.
al3 - 22.07.2006, 20:08 Uhr
Titel:
Only time I've had freezing like this is when my internal temp got too high. I shut down, took of the cover, blew a small box fan at it and started up again. No problems. Thus I added a fan like this: http://2coolpc.com/Cooling_Solutions/index.html from 2coolpc.com and problems went away for good.
Are you using a FF extention of some kind? Just a thought.
To lock up a keyboard and a mouse would probably mean that you somehow 'hosed' X. How could you have done that?
Al
2radical - 22.07.2006, 20:37 Uhr
Titel:
I'm using firefox 1.5.0.4. w/out extensions. I don't know how I could have hosed X if indeed that was the problem. I have 2 fans in the box so I kinda doubt that temp is a problem. I just got back home & of course I forgot to get the canned air. Later...
h2 - 22.07.2006, 20:42 Uhr
Titel:
on older pcs, the cpu heatsink tends to collect a mat of felt like dust between the heat sink blades, and on the fan blades themselves.
Compressed air usually will not clean this out, you need to open the case, unscrew the cpu fan unit, then clean out all the accumulated dust and fiber that can dramatically raise cpu temps because the heatsink does not get any airflow over it.
You don't need to do this that often, maybe once a year or so, depending on how dusty the room is.
Better cases, like antec, have a removable dust screen behind the front panel that catches more dust.
Antec sonata II cases come with a cpu fan duct to bring in cool air from the outside.
You can see if cpu temp is an issue by installing lm-sensors together with ksensors, which is a gui front end. Once lm-sensors is setup, it will show you all relevant cpu/mobo data.
Firefox freezing may be due to an extension conflict or corruption. Many people mix extensions that are not compatible and are then surprised and annoyed to find firefox destabilizing. Keep your extensions clean, don't mix functionaliities unless you're sure you know what the results will be.
But my first guess on why firefox is locking up would be that you installed that horrible gtk2-engines-gtk-qt, which tends to massively destabilize firefox from my experience. I would never use that library again for any reason. And yes, it totally froze kde in some cases. That issue may or may not have been fixed, I don't care, I'll never use that, or anything like that, again, for any reason.
op4latino - 23.07.2006, 05:07 Uhr
Titel:
The keyboard combo you were talking about earlier, is it supposed to work in windows as well? My XP is freezing up at shutdown every now and then.
schnorrer - 23.07.2006, 12:54 Uhr
Titel:
There is an other reson failing shutdown or unconditional freeze on older mobo's.
1. bad programmed APM/ACPI. New BIOS will help.
2. 1 Jumper on the MoBo for the KBD to Powerup the pc. found near the KBD-Connector.
Pos. 1-2 means yes allow the KBD to powerup, Pos. 2-3 No.
someteimes there is a 2nd Jumper for the KBD-Powering. Jumper set: KBD and mouse got powered with 5V, even if the PC is off.
In the Case where only the 3-pin jumper is avail. set it to that pos. where powerup is allowed.
in the case with both Jumpers, also make shure the 2-pin jumper is set to power the KBD even PC is off.
@op4latino:Freezing XP too, cause can be: Bad plugged interface card in a pci-slot, does not fit exactly, bad connected RAM-Modules. By default overclocked Ram-Interface (Ram timing to fast) unstable PSU on 5V.
Wireing and Cables will cover the Fan, cause overheat on cpu. sol. Make shure no Cabel disturbs the airflow.
And last but not seldom, a damaged Capacitor near the RAM. MoBo is defekt.
2radical - 23.07.2006, 17:31 Uhr
Titel:
I bought this unit in 2004--is that considered old? Todays the day everything gets cleaned & checked. My lockups/freezes were not constant but irregularily occuring
ockham23 - 23.07.2006, 22:39 Uhr
Titel:
@2radical: 2004 can't be considered too old, unless you ask a salesperson from Dell or HP.
Two suggestions: Boot off the Kanotix cd and run memtest86 from grub extra menu to check memory modules; remove pc case cover for a couple of days to improve cooling.
2radical - 23.07.2006, 23:07 Uhr
Titel:
Zitat:
2004 can't be considered too old, unless you ask a salesperson from Dell or HP.
Yeah I'm sure you're right!! I just got through cleaning the inside of my box. The power supply was pretty dusty, but other than that, things weren't too bad. I have a fan on the side cover so it gets pretty good heat dissapation. I will do the memtest though so thanks...
2radical - 24.07.2006, 01:36 Uhr
Titel:
Well I ran memtest86+ for around 45 min making one pass with no errors, so I guess things are OK. Maybe it was just a fluke as I haven't had any more freezes since I reported it. At least things are nice & dust-free inside now.
Swynndla - 24.07.2006, 04:01 Uhr
Titel:
My main pc started freezing baddly a couple of months ago ... it started happening all of a sudden, on every boot, and happened even when I booting via live cd, so I knew it was hardware ... I installed ksensors (like h2 said) and saw that my cpu was runing at a high temp ... I cleaned out the dust in the heatsync (there was quite a bit) and also re-gelled the cpu to the heat sync, and afterwards ksensors showed the cpu running 10 degrees cooler on average.
After that, my pc freezes only once every day or two - but only when the pc is cold! ... ie a few minutes or so after I've after I've booted up in the morning. I don't use gtk2-engines-gtk-qt. It must be some other hardware problem like schnorrer says ... but the funny thing is, I didn't have a problem until a few months ago.
op4latino - 24.07.2006, 04:30 Uhr
Titel:
well. I just figure out my ps/2 keyboard was messing up things. Somehow its buffer overflowed. Now it's gone. hopefully I won't see XP freezing up.
About dust. I open the case and dust off stuff, but never took the processor fan off. I'll clean that next time.
2radical - 24.07.2006, 21:09 Uhr
Titel:
On the ksensors configuration mainboard sensors, under values the current temp is greyed out. Why doesn't it display the current temp I wonder?
h2 - 24.07.2006, 21:29 Uhr
Titel:
On mine that's not the one that's used, it's another of the main options to the left that actually gets the real cpu / mobo temp. On mine, it's the w83627thf option, your's will probably be different. Of course, your mobo has to support sensors etc in the first place.
Of course, cpu current temp will be grayed out because it's an output, you can't tell it the current temp, or change it, it's a reading of the current temp, not user modifiable. maximum, minimum, etc are mofifiable.
Read up on lm-sensors before proceeding I would recommend.
kstevek - 24.07.2006, 22:16 Uhr
Titel:
Ok update on the original problem, after finding no log files with any info to help I decided to view it as possible hardware issue. My computers live in a caravan with me and the ambient temperature in the last few weeks has been quite high even with door and windows open, my mobo has no usefull sensor chips to work with lm-sensors so I use a thermistor fixed to the chip touching the core. Temp has been getting to 45c midday on chip which is not too bad really though normal is about 39c. I have in the past replaced the psu fan and arrranged to be able to turn it down with a fanbus but had been getting "hot computer" smells so went back to full power. My psu is of unknown history too so first off I bought a cheap generic 400w new replacement for £20, whilst inside the box I cleaned all the dust out (reasonably ok actually) and reseated the heatsink with new arctic silver and checked all power plugs.
Since firing everything up again my system has been stable for quite a few days through some serious summer heat so maybe the psu was a bit faulty, who knows?
Today Ive found some interesting info about testing psu output and Im going to test the old unit to see if voltages are ok...
Best of luck to everyone whos having freezing problems, check your power supply... 
cheers kstevek
h2 - 24.07.2006, 22:32 Uhr
Titel:
I had a bad psu that caused random boot failures, I'd spray contact cleaner on the mobo power connector, it would fix it for a week or two, then it would do the same thing again.
finally I broke down and bought a new psu, and it worked perfectly, never failed to boot again.
There was no other symptom except the random 'failed to boot', when it booted, it was fine.
So sometimes psu and connector issues can be very subtle.
And heat, with the often accompanying power surges, can also fry out your systems.
If you don't use a battery backup unit as your surge protector, it's quite possible your mobo and other hardware will slowly start degenerating over time as they get hit with millisecond power drops etc. I had a mobo die from that last year. Then I bought a battery backup unit.
During summer power fluctuations should be expected, more and more and energy grids become increasingly strained by record heat waves.
2radical - 24.07.2006, 22:46 Uhr
Titel:
If you don't use a battery backup unit as your surge protector, it's quite possible your mobo and other hardware will slowly start degenerating over time as they get hit with millisecond power drops etc. I had a mobo die from that last year. Then I bought a battery backup unit.
I agree 100% I had a mb die as well I think 3+ yrs ago, so when I bought this box it was included. It's come in handy twice since I've had it due once to lightning & once to a power outage.
Edit: thanks h2--I since read up on lmsensors...
ironwalker - 25.07.2006, 18:52 Uhr
Titel:
Just to update,I have not experianced the problem again.
I have updated to newest kernel so it may have been an issue with my last kernel,the config,and what software and hardware I have.
As I mentioned earlier,its not you standard freezeing,caused by heat,hardware,dirt,etc etc.The mouse worked,thus not a standard pc freeze.
No key combos worked at all.
Oh well,chalked up to gremlins and ghosts.
kstevek - 28.07.2006, 23:02 Uhr
Titel:
My earlier optimism was missplaced...
Still having the same freezing problem, I cant replicate it at will either, couldnt find anything in any log files that I could find, new psu, clean and tidy in the case, replugged everything, temps good (cooler here now today anyway), newish kernel, tried removing xsreensaver to see if it helped, and every time it happens the mouse pointer still moves but cant click anything so a weird type of freeze/lockup.
If anyone can think what else I could try or what sort of errors might cause this specific type of freeze please join in,
cheers kstevek
2radical - 29.07.2006, 00:44 Uhr
Titel:
I used to think it was specific to hardware, but now I'm thinking it must be a software glitch somewhere. My problems with freezing have inexplicably disappeared, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed at this point.
It IS weird. My error logs didn't didn't even reflect what had happened, which I think they should, because I had to hit the reset button on my UPS to reboot.
My MB temps are at or below normal, & I cleaned everything thoroughly. I'm running Linux 2.6.16.16-kanotix-1 i686 [ KANOTIX 2006 Easter] No screensavers.
My mouse pointer didn't move, & keyboard was dead. My mouse pointer is occasionally jerky & sometimes disappears off the edge of the screen, but reappears with continued movement & cursing. I'm not sure about the effectiveness of the cursing, but I can't give it up.
schnorrer - 29.07.2006, 11:32 Uhr
Titel:
Guys ther is a prob. with heat and the soldering for the psu connectors.
When running mobo's long overheated, the soldering inside on layer 2 or 3 of the mobo, could get broken. The copper they used is as thin as a hair. Tempr. at the psu connectors ran at 180°C and the soldering flew away.
An other aspect are the capacitores. If they run for a long time at high tempr. they can get dry. No electrolyte inside the capacitors. Means no powering of the componets. Happend to me on at last 2 mobos and a TV.
Also I had a mobo with a buildt-in life-timer. After it has reached ist endtime, the mobo do not run again. This mobo was one of the fist intel LX ones.
2radical - 29.07.2006, 15:57 Uhr
Titel:
schnorrer: You have more experience & knowledge than I, so I take your word for it. However since I'm still able to use this & it hasn't froze for quite a while, I'm not going to go get a new MB (yet). I've had one other MB die after 4 yrs. or so of use. Not sure of the exact source on board, but behaviour became more & more erratic until it would no longer boot & I had to get a whole new system. An expensive prospect. I hope that doesn't happen here anytime soon.
schnorrer - 29.07.2006, 16:07 Uhr
Titel:
I hope too. Here, where I live, we got also troubles with other PC's and OS's. Freezing unconditionally, do not find formerly correct installed HW .....
btw. this happens now the second time. 2001 was the year with the same troubles. Though, it looks like a timebomb to me.
Computer architecture is now at a point, where erverthing is changed.
Alle Zeiten sind GMT + 1 Stunde
PNphpBB2 © 2003-2007